Readercon: Saturday, July 19th
Posted in Readercon on July 20th, 2008A great way to start the day, we overslept. We didn’t manage to get down to the Dealers’ Room until almost 11am. It opened at 10am. I missed a panel that I was really looking forward to at 10 also. Oh, well it happens and we really, really, needed the sleep. (My poison ivy is back–and that’s another story.)

12 (noon) Fantasists as Modern Philologists. Faye Ringel (L), Greer Gilman, Sonya Taaffe, Debra Doyle. Philologists believe that the study of an ancient language is inseparable from the study of its classic texts in their historical and cultural contexts–that understanding a language, the people who spoke it, and the stories they told in it are ultimately the same thing; there is no doing one without the others. It strikes us that this fascination with the interplay between language, culture, and story, is reflected in the works of some of the best writers of fantasy, beginning of course with Tolkien, himself a philologist of renown. Who are these writers? How do their works reflect this attitude even when they’re not actually inventing the languages of their imagined societies?
All the panelists had an amazing array of information to share. The topic ranged over how Tolkien actually went back to basics to discover (not create) the languages as they would have been if they existed. A slightly different distinction than having invented a language — he rediscovered the languages instead.
We speak words and words have power and thus create images in our mind — we “bespell” the world, creating it with words. There was a wonderful bit quoted from one of Ursula K. LeGuin’s books between Ged and his magician teacher about how an object can be changed by changing its true name, but that such a change would radically change the nature of the world itself and should never be done.
There was a lot more — language in a story should be consistent with the character, the world, and the story. My brain was full after this one.

1:00 pm “Are You Writing a Sequel?” Walter H. Hunt, Beth Bernobich, Suzy McKee Charnas, Michael J. Daley (L), Ellen Kushner, Judith Moffett, Sarah Beth Durst, Paul Haggerty. Readers love them. Editors want them–sometimes. What do writers think about them? When do they think of them: before during, or after work on the first book? How do they think of them: all planned out or a grope in the dark? What’s the difference between a sequel and a series? Our panelists will answer these and the questions that naturally follow them.
I really wanted to sit on this as it’s only the second panel Paul’s been on. He was the only non-published author. As a reviewer, he more or less represented the reader on the panel.
The panelists discussed their books, the first and succeeding ones. Whether they knew from book one that there would be a second or not. The problem is that once the first one is written and published the second has to deal with what happened in the first book (while some authors have done a ‘do over’ it’s not advised). So, if you know there will be a sequel, you can write accordingly, making a follow-on book a bit easier to write.
There was some disagreement on whether there was a difference between sequels and series. Moving on, the audience and most of the panel agreed that the most successful follow-ons are those in which the characters grow and change based on what has happened to them before in the book(s).
Well, it’s sort of granted that I should break in here. I was honored to be asked to sit in on this panel, and it was a great deal of fun, despite the rather large number of participants. When Michael Daley was pitching the idea to me during the summer, we thought there would just be three of us. Then when we arrived the other day, we find that there will be eight. Oops! Slight change in plans. But I think it went really well. The conversation zipped back and forth across the table, with no single person hogging the spot light. And with the experience of the authors from seasoned professionals to relative newcomers, to one lone, non-published (but with 10 chapters written!) reviewer, I think a solid array of opinions were espoused. And, I think I managed not to embarrass myself. Okay, back to Gayle …
Then back to the table to help out. Met a lot of folks and talked about SFRevu, the convention, and books.

3:00 pm Gatekeepers to the World of Letters. Michael J. Daley, Nancy Werlin, Charles Oberndorf (M), Sarah Beth Durst, Cassandra Clare, Judith Berman. “[The book is] the oldest and the first mass medium. And it’s the one that requires the most training to access. Novels, particularly, require serious cultural training…I make black marks on a white surface and someone else in another location looks at them and interprets them and sees a spaceship or whatever. It’s magic.”–William Gibson. We know that YA writers take very seriously their responsibility to tell young readers stories that reflect what they feel is true of life. How aware are they of their responsibility for training young readers in the magic Gibson speaks of? What kinds of stories cultivate lifelong readers?
The authors said they write the stories they want to write and the publisher supplies the labels of lower YA, middle YA, upper YA, or whatever. Mostly the labels have to do with the age of the protagonist.
All agreed that the writer needs to, at the beginning of the book, give the reader the clues as to how to read the story and that goes for all books whether for younger readers or adults. That good writing is good writing and that most bad YA is written by those “writing for children” as opposed to those writing to tell a story. That an agenda does not make a good book if you start with the moral or the agenda. That the story is what drives everything even though you may have a theme running through the book.
Never write down to the readers and never forget the stories are key to keeping anyone reading.
Then it was back to the Dealer’s Room until it closed at 6pm. Finally, food. We drove to the mall and its food court — good solid food at reasonable prices. Then we walked through the mall top floor and bottom after eating to walk out the kinks. Finally, back to our room for an early night. We’re across the hall from the con suite and it’s not too noisy but it does mean there is the siren call of munchies and drinks all evening.




11 am Over the Hills in Farah’s Way: Four Categories of Fantasy: Gregory Frost (L), Ellen Asher, Greer Gilman, Sarah Micklem, John Clute. Every Readercon attendee is urged to pick up and devour a copy of Farah Mendlesohn’s Rhetoric of Fantasy, in which she describes four types of fantasy distinguished by the relationship of the protagonists, and hence the reader, to the fantasy world. In the portal-quest fantasy (The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe or Lord of the Rings), the protagonists leave their mundane world and cross through to the fantastic, and the protagonists and reader discover and understand the new world together. In the immersive fantasy (Perdido Street Station or The Iron Dragon’s Daughter), the fantastic is presented without comment or explanation as the norm for both the protagonist and reader. The intrusion fantasy (Dracula or most of Lovecraft’s short fiction) is in many ways the opposite of the portal-quest: the fantastic enters the ordinary world, where it is met by awe, shock, amazement, or the like. (Most intrusion fantasies are horror, but there are interesting exceptions.) In the liminal fantasy (Hope Mirrlee’s Lud-in-the-Mist or Little, Big) there might be an intrusion into the ordinary world, but the reader is disoriented, estranged, or challenged by the casualness with which the protagonists accept the intrusion or by their doubt of its reality. We’ll discuss the usefulness of the taxonomy and look at each of the categories, highlighting the most interesting of Mendlesohn’s insights.
The pocket program had a different title but I made it to the panel anyway. I’ve read about one-third of Farah’s book. What I’ve learned from reading so far is that it stops me and makes me think of the fantasy I’ve read and whether most of what I’ve read can be placed in one of her categories. The panel talked about the misfits or outliers to this division. However, John Clute mentioned that all ideas are wrong because you can always find things that don’t fit or don’t fit well, but that an idea that throws light on the subject and is a starting point for discussion and classification is always worth while (I’m paraphrasing so this is my interpretation of what he said). These four ways that the fantastic come into a story are not vertical divisions by more layers or talking points about how the fantastic interacts with the reader and/or the protagonists.
12:00 (noon) Generation Dark: Holly Black (L), Nick Mamatas, M.M. Buckner, Cassandra Clare, Don D’Ammassa, Nathan Ballingrud. There’s some anecdotal evidence that the readership for horror and dark fantasy is younger than the readership for the rest of the field, and this shifting demographic is also reflected in our guest list. To what extent is the boom in young writers and readers of dark fantasy a reflection of the darkness of the times? And to what extent are we simply seeing the first generation to grow up with horror as a successful commercial genre and Stephen King as an icon? What other factors are in play?
3:00 pm The Critical Review: Griffin, Gorgon, or Sphinx? David G. Hartwell, Elizabeth Hand, Gary K. Wolfe (L), Farah Mendlesohn, John Clute. The book review and the critical literary study serve fundamentally different purposes. Yet SF book reviews have frequently contained valuable critical insights: it’s hard to avoid having them if you’re a perceptive reader, and hard to leave them out of a review. We’ll look at the history and techniques of the critical review and assess just how comfortably the two components have gotten along. What does the continued practice of the hybrid form say about the nature of the reading experience and the way we talk about books.
4:00 pm Objects in a Room May be Scarier Than They Appear. Delia Sherman (L), John Clute, Kit Reed, Lucy Corin, Paul Tremblay. “The description in crime fiction of domestic interiors, furnishings and possessions…is often crucial to the plot. In Agatha Cristie, for example, we can be confident that almost any domestic article mentioned, however commonplace, will provide a clue, either true or false.”–P.D. James. Objects in a room in SF or fantasy are clues to the world-building, while in much contemporary fiction they are class and status markers and hence clues to character. What about the objects in a room (and by extension the entire described environment) in a horror or slipstream story? How often are they clues, and clues to what? Or is the very cluelessness of the environment part of what creates the horror or facilitates the slippage.
7:00 pm Waking Up Sober Next to a Story Idea. Kay Kenyon, Jennifer Pelland, Jeffrey A. Carver (L), Paolo Bacigalupi, David Anthony Durham, Allan Steele. Really, it seemed absolutely beautiful once upon a time. Now that you’ve had intimate knowledge of it (say, midway through the novel), you can see all the less-than-flattering sides. You may even wonder, What the hell was I thinking? How do you recover enthusiasm for the work? Now that you see the flaws, how do you begin the process of fixing them?









Wolfe led off talking about the gazillion of definitions of science fiction that are out there. He’s broken them down into three types: functional definitions, rhetorical definitions, and theoretical definitions. Under functional he mentioned David Hartwell’s definition in the Year’s Best… that (paraphrase here) science fiction is what a chronic reader would recognize as science fiction.
Since several of the people in the audience and officially in the discussion have an academic background the topic was interesting because of their belief that a common language for discussion would benefit the genre as a whole.
I usually start my day out reading Amazon Daily’s entries. Today there was one about Starbucks new drink the Vivanno — Banana Chocolate and you can have a shot of espresso added. The writer gave it good marks and it sounded interesting. Didn’t think much more about it, that is until we stopped for coffee on the way home from the doc’s.
My first skein of yarn so far. As I said in an earlier post, it’s about 329 yards. Haven’t done the w.p.i. yet. But, it looks to me like sock yarn-ish. I ended up doing 3-ply.


Just got back from the Saturday shopping and found my Readercon schedule in my email. Here’s what I’m going to be involved in. Of course, we’re arriving on Thursday early evening hopefully in time to get our table set up in the Dealer’s Room.